| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/14/2009 : 7:58:57 PM
Dear Friends - I am looking at a 1979 Mariner 28'. This boat has a single Crusader engine. Should I run away? Can I expect this to handle properly? What are pros and cons? The instruments tell me that it has only 145 hours. That can't be right. This boat will be used on the Hudson River and ERie Canal - watching fireworks and listening to concerts - no open travel. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 2:50:17 PM
FYI - I am having a hull inspection completed on the 33' Mariner today. We needed to do that quickly since it is going in the water next week. Will determine if I will go forward with a compression test and full inspection after that pre-lim report is in.
I am thinking of trying to negotiate the following with the seller: We go in equally on the cost of the survey. If all is well, I buy his boat. If I back out, he keeps the new survey for next prospects. Has anyone done that before? Is that cool? |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 6:34:45 PM
OK - There are a couple of other options nearby for consideration;
1979 Mariner 33 - needs refurb one newer engine , one with 1100 hrs. $15000 At marina 10 mins from home Mechanics there rave about it's condition. Older man needs to sell - beloved wife is in nursing home. 1979 brown and orange orig interior. Teak is perfect.
1985 26 Santa Cruz - excellent condition asking $13000 - been in a lot of contact with seller, ex cond - but up in 1000 Islands
1985 Riviera 28 - asking $19000 with season dock on Lake George, $16500 w/o. All new everything - nothing to do, 300 hours on new engines.
I realize this is a 28 forum but does anyone have anything to report about these Carvers? I really like the Mariner but it will take some effort to get the interior right. Hull/ext perfect.
I also need to consider how to get my standard poodle on deck.
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| Respite2 |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 5:52:10 PM
So do you think the Swedes are cruising this sight?
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. You did a lot of the right things and you learned a few things along this journey. Now it is a matter of taking your newfound knowledge and applying it to your next find.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Bill Barker
Seekonk, Ma. |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 5:21:03 PM
SOME GUY FROM SWEDEN JUST BOUGHT THE BOAT!!!!!! The $$$ was wired yesterday. That is why my phone calls were not returned.
Back to the drawing board. Good thing boats grow on trees.
Anyone know about a great Mariner 28 for sale???? UGGG |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 5:08:58 PM
wow - you guys are great. The pics are new and so is the engine which is a super plus. It may be worth while to part with the money and get it surveyed at least. I rather like the old girl and the price is certainly right. The boat was a trade in and at the point it appears as thought they just want to unload.
I know that I will have a blast working on it.
The service manager at the dealership where I found her offered to take me out and show me the details of handling her.
OK - it looks like I have a few calls to make. Will be back soon. |
| Jimbo Song |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 4:35:59 PM
Good on you Monterey! When you practice this maneuver you will discover all sorts of subtlties. For instance, you will learn that bringing the helm hard over and reversing the gear a bit sooner in each direction allows you to actually move the boat sideways.
It's actually a lot of fun to play with. When I first started boating as a lad my Grandfather used to get me out in open water and make me practice this over and over. It has served me well over the years. Now I have twin "V" drives so I drive in tight quarters using the "sticks". But the single can be a lot of fun to play with and you can really impress your friends once you become adept at it..
Good luck.
1987 Carver Voyager 28
Jimbo Song |
| monterey74 |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 12:06:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo Song
...a maneuver called "Back and Fill".
Thanks Robert for the name of the Back and Fill maneuver. These are the types of tricks that a seasoned skipper will know how to use on her boat. If you understand the physics behind the boat being moved through water and air there are many such tricks that are not evident to the casual observer.
Also, the trawler is a good example of a single screw inboard. If this configuration was too hard to maneuver, the trawler would not be such a popular form.
With the proper terminology in hand I was able to find a HOWTO document:
http://www.usna.edu/SailingTeam/training/boats/navy44/backandfill.pdf
(You can skim through the cruft on page 1, the real info starts with #5 in the Sequence of Events.)
1974 2885 Monterey
1978 2896 Mariner (Stripped down to the gunwale and ready to cut) |
| Jimbo Song |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 09:38:14 AM
After reading all of the posts there are a few points I'd like to comment on.
First, maneuverability, yes, handling a single inboard does take some getting used to. But once you get the hang of it it's no more difficult than a twin. There are LOTS of Trawlers out there that are all singles and they are handled easily and expertly. If you need to, once you buy the boat, get one of the locals or hire a captain to teach you a maneuver called "Back and Fill". Once you learn and get the hang of that you can dock it in a pickle jar! 
Second, fore deck. It may be that the fore deck, over the forward birth, is not cored but solid fiberglass. My voyager is made this way and, yes, when you step on it it gives a bit. That is very different from a "soft spot". The most vulnerable places, at least on my 1987, are the bridge and the cockpit soles. Plus, the hull or the boat is solid fiberglass as well but the stringers and transome are wood cored. Those should be checked thoroughly. But, as someone else said, the surveyor can and will check it thoroughly with a moisture meter and a phenolic hammer.
Third, from the looks of the photos, depending ou how recent they are, $8000 for that boat looks like a good deal assuming the surveyer and sea trial come back with a good report. Heck, the new engine and new canvas are worth nearly that much.
Keep us posted but it looks to me like you may be onto a very nice old boat that you can "make your own" without spending a lot of money and have aq hell of a lot of fun doing it.
1987 Carver Voyager 28
Jimbo Song |
| woodboat |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 7:46:01 PM
Diane, single inboards are trickier to dock than single I/O's, no question, and Brett's comments are very valid imo. If the rest of the boat meets your wishes, I would say do not let the drivetrain scare you off from owning her. While in most boating situations with docking speed is your enemy, the reverse is mostly true with single inboards. ... The more headway you have, going forward or reverse, the better control you will have... scary proposition for the uninitiated, but not overly difficult to master imo. ~ Steve |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 4:50:47 PM
Thank you everyone. At this point I may be spooked about handling a single inboard. While I have about 30 years experience boating, it is limited to 22' and below and I/Os. They can be tough enough to dock in close quarters and strong winds/waves on our lake. Granted, sheltered bays on a river (where I would dock the Mariner) may be another story but I may not be prepared for it. I may go to look at a 1985 Santa Cruz with a Merc stern drive unless you can realisitically offer some more encouragement re: the mariner. |
| stevenp |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 08:06:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DKinnicutt
Forgot to mention - the teak seemed to be in very good condition although it needs a thorough sanding/varnish. The section that seemed iffy to me and the service tech was that the deck at the bow over the V-berth seemed soft in places. It gave a little bit when I walked on it. This issue did not seem present elsewhere on the boat. Obviously I would point to that during a survey but I wanted to know if that is "normal".
When I had my boat surveyed, the surveyor had a meter he used to measure the moisture level of the wood coring throughout the boat. With the proper tools your surveyor should be able to easily tell if this area is water damaged.
Silver Beaches, 1986, 28' Mariner |
| monterey74 |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 01:12:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DKinnicutt
Forgot to mention - the teak seemed to be in very good condition although it needs a thorough sanding/varnish. The section that seemed iffy to me and the service tech was that the deck at the bow over the V-berth seemed soft in places. It gave a little bit when I walked on it. This issue did not seem present elsewhere on the boat. Obviously I would point to that during a survey but I wanted to know if that is "normal".
It sounds like water may have entered the deck and damaged the core. Generally when cored fiberglass seems soft it is an indicator that the fiberglass shell has de-laminated from its internal coring material. On the late '70s Carvers the deck coring is generally end grain balsa with plywood in the areas that need additional strength. On that bow area of the boat the water likely entered around a poorly bedded cleat or possibly around the deck hatch flange.
Repairing water damaged coring is not a difficult task itself, but quite often large portions of a boat's interior need to be removed to gain access to the area that needs repair. This is particularly true when the damaged core is in the boat's hull. Hiring someone to make such a repair can be costly and should be considered when negotiating a purchase price for the boat. If the hull of the boat is free of water damage the soft deck may be a repair that is worth undertaking, especially if the boat is otherwise very clean and in good mechanical condition. However if the core rot is widespread or is found in the hull you should get an opinion from a trusted expert.
1974 2885 Monterey
1978 2896 Mariner (Stripped down to the gunwale and ready to cut) |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 4:35:26 PM
Forgot to mention - the teak seemed to be in very good condition although it needs a thorough sanding/varnish. The section that seemed iffy to me and the service tech was that the deck at the bow over the V-berth seemed soft in places. It gave a little bit when I walked on it. This issue did not seem present elsewhere on the boat. Obviously I would point to that during a survey but I wanted to know if that is "normal". |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 4:29:43 PM
More info is coming on the boat by the tech that has completed much of its service. But for now, he was able to tell us that the engine is new, which explains the low hours. One gas tank is original and the other was replaced with the engine. It has new batteries, etc. |
| DKinnicutt |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 12:01:41 PM
Here is the link to the page that contains this boats listing:
http://www.boatnrv.com/productdetails.aspx?sid=211608a |
