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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2005 : 10:14:23 PM
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I've been looking for a site like this for years! Thanks Carvermitch!
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carvermitch
Canada
407 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2005 : 09:52:58 AM
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Hi and welcome to the forum. We have some great boaters here and it is very relaxed. Feel free to use this forum to discuss any of your boating needs. Tell us about your boat, your boating tips, hints etc.
So please enjoy
Regards
Paul |
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2005 : 9:01:58 PM
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Well, you know what they're like, you've got a project boat yourself. Mine is a 1974 with twin 302s, inboards. I bought her in Point Judith, Rhode Island, and brought her back to Salisbury New Hampshire where I lived aboard that summer hanging off a mooring in the Merrimac. Some people at Dawn Marina recognized the boat, turns out the guy I bought her from found her there in the first place! Small world.
The next year I cruised her back to Inland Harbor Marina, my home marina, on Seneca Lake in New York. Came limping in with a bad valve in the port engine, both water pumps screaming for mercy, and every belt stretching the threads. But I made it.
Right now she's up on the hard while I dig out all the rot I've been ignoring for the past few years. Bad window leaks, too, I'll have to do something radical.
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 7:43:26 PM
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The helm being reclaimed. Note the windshield frames are out, one wiper motor is hanging by the wires and the other is on the bench while I figure out how to fix it cheap, and the starboard lounge seat has collapsed.
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carvermitch
Canada
407 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 9:05:51 PM
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Good luck with the project. Mine is going slower than I would like but I hope to be doing a lot more on her very soon.
Thanks for the photo.
If you need any parts I am happy to advertise for you on the website or someone here may be able to help.
Regards
Paul |
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Bill
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 10:22:10 PM
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Hi inlandboatman, your project looks like it will keep you busy for awhile. But it will be well worth it. I am at Ervay's marina, about a mile up the canal at Watkins. Some of the boaters here are working on their boats while still in the water. One guy has had his covered with a blue tarp for as long as i have been here. But his progress has suddenly speeded up. A new girlfriend who is an interior decorator is helping him bring a great boat back to life. Its nice to see the tarp gone.
Bill |
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 07:52:17 AM
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Nothing like the woman's touch on a good boat. They just aren't right, somehow, without a woman aboard.
I'll get more pix up as I go along. Wait until you guys see the rot in the sliding window frames below, you'll have a heart attack.
Paul has links to some great info here, this is just a perfect website for us old Carver boys.
Now those windshield frames, I have the glass out, and I figured I'd run a little good siliconized caulk into the grooves before I put the glass back in and then re-install the old bead. Should work, and it's cheap. |
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 10:05:40 PM
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Windshields are back in, but the old beading misbehaved, curling out in one corner. I dunno, just cut that part away for now I guess, let the caulk do the sealing.
Port side forward cabin window frame:
The black stain is all rot you can stick your finger through. All these rakish, elegant sliding windows look great and leak like sieves. If I was going to design a frame guaranteed to leak it would be just like this. Note the rotted area is at the junction of foredeck, foredeck beam, sheer clamp, cabin windshield frame, side window coaming and A-pillar, and all these components are afflicted. What a mess and most awkward to get at.
I took the port windows out today, breaking one of course, and finding scores of fly carcasses that have been piling up behind the top trim since 1974. What I'm going to do is move the windows outboard into a new frame on the cabin side, let them drain onto the side decks instead of inside the cabin.
Previous owners had used Gitrot, gobs of caulk of every kind and - I counted - 71 screws through the window coaming to try and stop the leaking, all to no avail. So I can't save that piece. When I removed it however, the cabin side aft cupped out rather severely. The coaming is actually used as a clamp to hold the cabin side in place back there. I'll have to use through bolts and a mahogany sandwich to straighten that out, along with a new coaming piece. The rot in both the after hanging lockers is just as bad as you see in the pic above, so all that wood gets replaced.
Window leaks are serious business. |
Edited by - inlandboatman on 07/19/2005 10:10:00 PM |
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yottyboy
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2005 : 4:24:29 PM
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| Yup, those cabin sides are not too good against years of weather. Lord help you if you take a sea across the foredeck! As I move ahead with a similar resto, I'm strongly considering deadlights in the cabin sides. |
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2005 : 10:35:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yottyboy
Yup, those cabin sides are not too good against years of weather. Lord help you if you take a sea across the foredeck! As I move ahead with a similar resto, I'm strongly considering deadlights in the cabin sides.
It's worse than I thought. As you know, if you have a wooden cabin vintage Mariner, the superstructure is supported by the deck stringers. Starboard stringer has completely rotted through, from midship all the way back to the afterdeck. I can reach in and pull out rot by the handful. The side deck must come off to enable repairs.
All due to window leaks!
There are two possible solutions, I think. Fill in the window frames with plywood and remount the sliding windows outboard, or install the deadlights yotty suggested. The other solution is possibly to cast window frame liners out of resin, or glass and resin, for the windows to ride in. |
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yottyboy
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 2:32:59 PM
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The entire superstructure on my boat is pretty much garbage. Gosh, it's all beautiful mahogany, but several bodged repairs and years of weather have done it in. It appears that it was put together with air staples and hide glue. In addition, the whole mess rides precariously on the side deck longitudinals and the (very wimpy) fore deck beams. The foredeck beams are tied into the side decks, so it's all not so good. Several strokes of the Sawzall will send all this to it's place alongside the gutted interior panels and rotted stringers.
When I replace it all, it'll be far more structurally rigid and the side decks will get new laminated longitudinals that are tied to the hull sides. It'll all be epoxy encapsulated against rot. I think the designers assumed that a "Mariner" would never see actual ocean conditions, more like a light chop. |
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 10:10:32 PM
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Holy mackerel, Yotts. I thought I had problems.
But I believe your radical solution is the correct one. What are your plans for the new cabin layout? Will you have the helm inside?
I toyed with the idea of dropping the helm down to the foredeck, right over the bunk, backing up to the head and galley, with steps leading up. That would be cool - but I don't think I'll make that happen after all. I tend to dream way beyond my means and opportunity. |
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pbardunias
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 2:41:07 PM
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Having fun, guys???
Reading about your resto projects is bringing back memories. I must have had one of the first 2895s to fall apart (parents bought it new in '75, gave it to me in the late '80s) and had the pleasure of confronting all these problems that you have now at that time. In my boat's case, the deck and flybridge were all rotten. Basically I had a hull that was sound, that was it. Even the engines had had it from 15 years use in the Hudson River and LI Sound...
Back in 1991 we rebuilt it and got 12 more years out of it. I sold it to someone who has it on Seneca Lake now...
Have you guys considered just jacking up the cabin and lifting it right off the deck??? That's how we did our resto job in '91. Once you pull off that mahogany board that holds the windows in, you have access to the screws holding the cabin to the deck. That plus the "V" shaped line of screws holding the front windshield in, and some screws in the head compartment, and some more holding on those crappy pressed board panels which comprise the rear cabin bulkhead, is all that holds the boat together. We used a few automotive jacks supported on 2 x 4s stretched across the settee, dinette and galley, and that was it. A little care exercised in jacking it up evenly, then nailing a temporary support in place which used the dinette, settee, and head compartment for support, and we had unfettered access to the entire deck...
I would suggest pretty much a direct replacement of the manufacturer's original design, rather than messing with attempts to put longitudinal stiffeners in or other materials which attach to the hull. Remember that different materials flex at different rates, and by butting wood up against the hull in places it wasn't meant to be you could be introducing a whole array of new stress points to the hull. If you're venturing offshore I'd suggest you buy a different boat. Otherwise, for inland use, there wasn't anything wrong with Carver's original 1970s design except that it rotted and fell apart...
I would definitely invest in all pressure treated wood for the deck and supporting structure. Its all basically layers of plywood one atop the other - in some places its 3 or 4 layers of 3/4" plywood thick. That stuff looks lovely when it rots!!! Then, when you lay the house back down on the deck, do TWO smart things - (1) buy only EPOXY resin for the fiberglass overlay (we were stupid and used a lot of polyester - it still worked but tended to delaminate), and (2) redesign the windows so that you can put the glass in from the OUTSIDE. That way you can glass in the long mahogany boards in the cabin, and your leak problem will be solved. Actually I'd get rid of the mahogany and use 5/4" pressure treated deck boards, and paint 'em white. They're stronger and will look better. That was one of the last modifications we made to my old boat before we sold it, because that damn mahogany rots!!!
If you can figure a way to put the windows in from the outside, probably by re-bracing the house so it doesn't rest specifically on that bottom piece of teak on each side, therefore you can cut it and use it only as ornamental teak, you'll be able to seal the windows properly. The problem with the old design was that they were guaranteed to leak because the lowest point was the seam between the mahogany and the teak where the window channel was. Only the silicone kept the water out, and not for long...
One last thing - if you jack the deckhouse, be sure you carefully set it back down again. We had a comedic, near tragic moment where my friend was holding the cabin up and we loosened the supports and set it down, and then it started sliding off! I was BS-ing with somebody when I hear "Pete, Pete, PETE!" as my friend tried to alert me of his desperate attempts to hold the entire deckhouse from going splat on the concrete 10 feet below. Fortunately we reacted in time - crisis averted!!!
Oh, did I mention, Good luck with the boat, and have LOTS of patience!!!
PS - if someone can advise, I'll post some pics of the resto. I never was too good with doing it on these forums!
Pete B from NY |
Edited by - pbardunias on 08/01/2005 2:41:53 PM |
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carvermitch
Canada
407 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 5:15:26 PM
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Hi
Great to hear of your experience with Mariners. If you want to email me some photos of the restoration I will be happy to post them on the main website in the gallery.
This of coarse goes for any Carver Mariner photos anyone has and would like have posted.
I appreciate you sharing this with us and look forward to hearing more advice you may have to offer those of us who are restoring these beauties.
Thanks again.
Paul |
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inlandboatman
43 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 8:24:33 PM
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Yes I did consider jacking the whole thing up! Definitely! I chickened out! I was considering pole jacks, I have four of them lying about.
Many questions: did you have to tear out the headliner? OK, no great loss, but I'll avoid it for now if I can. Where are those screws holding in the rear bulkhead? Along the bottom inside the hanging locker? What about the head? Any surprises in there?
My plan is to fill in the window frames with plywood, glass it, and install either RV manufactured windows or build frames myself, to drain outboard, instead of inboard.
Anyway, with the cabin lifted a few inches, it should be a piece of cake to replace the stringers. I have mahogany timber to hand that will do the job, I need only butter it up with epoxy.
I use West System and no other. Never fails. A previous owner used polyester resin and it is delaminating all over the boat. |
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pbardunias
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 11:00:49 PM
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Yes, the headliner came out - its easy to replace and the same pattern is still available from Defender Marine (CT) or BoatUS I think has it too. You'll see how they stapled and folded each piece as you take it apart...
The screws holding the rear all come from the outside. You might have to take off some of the teak trim to get at them all, I can't remember. anymore. But its all Phillips head wood screws...
Polyester will delaminate when it gets wet. I found this out much to my chagrin. People don't realize the implications because most boats are built of polyester and not epoxy, but the stuff is only good when its all being stuck to itself before it cures. Its a lousy glue. The West System stuff is very good. There's another place in FL called RAKA that sells a good mix of epoxies and hardeners...
Mitch, as soon as I have a chance I'll send you some pics. I'll have to do it a little at a time because it will take forever to get them all online. We kinda got a little crazy with the camera...
Pete B from NY |
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Hot diggety!
