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Respite2
6 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2009 : 3:11:27 PM
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We are in the process of purchasing a 1987, 28' Carver Mariner. At this stage we are arranging for the survey. This is our first boat. The engines are twin 5-liters (305's at 220 hp). There are 1,100 hours on the engines. The engines are raw water cooled and has a fresh water flush system.
The question is "What should I be looking for in the survey besides the usual?" We are planning on conducting a compression test of the engines at $100.00/engine. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. The manifolds and risers have not been replaced during the five years the current owner has owned the boat.
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monterey74
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 10:37:06 AM
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At 1100 hours the engines are reaching that stage where they could begin to exhibit problems depending on their use and the previous owner's maintenance of them. A compression and leakdown test can give you a pretty good picture of what parts in your engine may be worn. The leakdown test can isolate the source of a loss in compression, but is more time consuming and requires an external supply of compressed air. A properly maintained gasoline marine engine can last 2000 hours, but 1500 is more likely.
Also pay particular attention to the condition of any non-fiberglass components of the hull. A good surveyor will determine whether water has penetrated the core or stringers over the years.
1974 2885 Monterey
1978 2896 Mariner (Parts Boat) |
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Jimbo Song
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 2:12:00 PM
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A good quality survey and the compression and leak tests should let you know exactly what you have. I own a 1987 Voyager 28 and I can tell you, they're solid as a rock and if the systems are all functioning you're buying one heck of a boat. One thing to keep in mind, as the previous poster said, with 1100 hours on the engines even with good maintenance there will be a rebuild or a repower in your future. My engines have 1700 hours on them and still run great but I can tell they are getting quite tired and plan a repower this fall.
Whatever, though, these are great boats with lots of space and comfort and make a really nice small cruiser. The 2' 10" draft allows me to explore waters my friends with larger boats can't even think about. I also use mine to fish off shore and it handles 2'-3' seas with ease. I've been out in 4'seas which the boat handles well but my body doesn't. :)
Good luck and keep us posted as you progress with your evaluation and, hopefully, purchase.Why not post some "pre-purchase" photos and perhaps we can pick up some things to advise you about.
quote:
Originally posted by Respite2
We are in the process of purchasing a 1987, 28' Carver Mariner. At this stage we are arranging for the survey. This is our first boat. The engines are twin 5-liters (305's at 220 hp). There are 1,100 hours on the engines. The engines are raw water cooled and has a fresh water flush system.
The question is "What should I be looking for in the survey besides the usual?" We are planning on conducting a compression test of the engines at $100.00/engine. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. The manifolds and risers have not been replaced during the five years the current owner has owned the boat.
1987 Carver Voyager 28
Jimbo Song |
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Respite2
6 Posts |
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Jimbo Song
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 07:42:16 AM
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If it were me I would have both the compression and the leak down tests done. Afterall $200 compared to the price of the boat is nothing. Plus if the test detects a problem it can save you a multi-thousand dollar mistake.
Over all the boat looks very clean and well maintained. The Bilge is quite dry which is surprising for a boat that old. I would expect the drip seals to leak more than that but from the looks of it they do not. Maybe they have been recently replaced. How long has the boat been in the water?
One thing I noticed, it looks like the 120V electrical outlets are not GFI protected. If you buy the boat you should have that changed ASAP. Other than that the photos look very nice.
The listing price for the boat is quite high for this day and economy. But I am sure you have negotiated that to a more reasonable level.
If the boat is as good as the photos appear you will love it. They are great small cruisers for a couple and will handle most anything you can throw at it. From the looks of the way they have it furnished and accessorized, I would say the boat has not been in rough water or the ocean for quite some time. I see lots of loose baskets, kitchen items, etc. laying about. You may have a gem there that has been babied during its life.
Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.
PS: ONE MORE THING, The owner information listed in your link for this boat says 14 GPH at 3000 RPM. I don't think so unless he means 14 GPH per engine. My boat, at 3000 runs about 22-23 kts and burns about 12 GPH per engine.
quote:
Originally posted by Respite2
We are in the process of purchasing a 1987, 28' Carver Mariner. At this stage we are arranging for the survey. This is our first boat. The engines are twin 5-liters (305's at 220 hp). There are 1,100 hours on the engines. The engines are raw water cooled and has a fresh water flush system.
The question is "What should I be looking for in the survey besides the usual?" We are planning on conducting a compression test of the engines at $100.00/engine. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. The manifolds and risers have not been replaced during the five years the current owner has owned the boat.
1987 Carver Voyager 28
Jimbo Song |
Edited by - Jimbo Song on 05/12/2009 7:25:50 PM |
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Respite2
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 7:14:58 PM
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Jim, thanks for you thoughtful reply. Does seem to be well maintained. The pictures were taken when it was in the water and I believe late last summer.
The price we settled on is in the ballpark for boats this age. The difference is other CM's we checked were in much worse condition. On one day we toured four CM's in Connecticut. Two shined, two were dogs, showing their age. The other shiner was $5k more for a starting point in negotiations.
I had also looked at 31’ and 34’ Silverton’s. These boats were taking quite a battering in price. I looked at six altogether. One 34, after having the hull reconditioned and repainted, and other updates, was going for $30K. Based on that small sampling, and what I have been reading, it appears to me that larger boats are taking greater markdowns, especially when compared to what owners purchased them a few years ago.
In my view CM’s are a greater value than the Silverton’s in terms of useful space and just a wonderful looking boat.
By the way, I enjoy poking around this site and picking up information. It is very useful. Surveys are next week. Will keep you posted.
Bill Barker
Seekonk, Ma. |
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Jimbo Song
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 09:08:28 AM
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I've always said that Carver makes the biggest 28' boats around. My Voyager has more interior space, cockpit space and fly bridge space than a lot of 30'-32' boats that my friends own. Hope it all works out and, if it does, you'll love the boat.
You are right, larger boats are getting hammered pricewise. I think it is a function of slip space rental rates. Way too many folks losing their jobs and simply cannot afford the slip rent. Very sad situation. I'm VERY fortunate to live on the water and keep the boat right behind my house, no rent.
Keep us posted about the survey results.
quote:
Originally posted by Respite2
Jim, thanks for you thoughtful reply. Does seem to be well maintained. The pictures were taken when it was in the water and I believe late last summer.
The price we settled on is in the ballpark for boats this age. The difference is other CM's we checked were in much worse condition. On one day we toured four CM's in Connecticut. Two shined, two were dogs, showing their age. The other shiner was $5k more for a starting point in negotiations.
I had also looked at 31’ and 34’ Silverton’s. These boats were taking quite a battering in price. I looked at six altogether. One 34, after having the hull reconditioned and repainted, and other updates, was going for $30K. Based on that small sampling, and what I have been reading, it appears to me that larger boats are taking greater markdowns, especially when compared to what owners purchased them a few years ago.
In my view CM’s are a greater value than the Silverton’s in terms of useful space and just a wonderful looking boat.
By the way, I enjoy poking around this site and picking up information. It is very useful. Surveys are next week. Will keep you posted.
Bill Barker
Seekonk, Ma.
1987 Carver Voyager 28
Jimbo Song |
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pghjoe
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 10:04:43 AM
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What would it cost (approximately) to have a motor ripped down and rebuilt if the hours are getting high?
Thanks
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 12:14:30 PM
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Sharp boat, like the appointments in the interior. 
If the compression test is good, the leakdown test won't tell you much more.
Leakdown is usually used to confirm why the compression is not good, IE Leaking rings and/or valves.
Other than some of the gaskets, cam, and possible rotation direction, there is not much difference between Marine engines and their automotive counterparts.
(I know, I know, many sources say otherwise, Can tell you by experience, they are basically the same block & internal parts.)
The parts that bolt on externally to the engine ARE different and very important for safety in a marine application.
Basically you can figure about $2K per engine for a re-build done well, less for a lesser rebuild.
This does not count getting the engine(s) out or re-installed into the boat.
Keep in mind, you can do one at a time to spread your immediate re-build costs over a couple seasons.
(Something to consider, GM sells 350 crate engine with warranty for less than a good re-build. If I had GM engines like this boat has, would definitely go with a brand new crate engine, more horsepower, less fuel usage.)
Get the compression tests done and even if good now, talk the owner down some in price to help offset the cost of a later re-build due to the number of hours on the engines.
(Keep in mind an hourmeter is mostly meaningless, the actual condition of the engine is what is important and hours really mean almost nothing. However you CAN use it as a lowering price point..)
The exhaust riser in one of the pics looks to have leaked, might use that as a price lowering point also...
Hope this helps! 
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
Western Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 06/11/2009 12:39:40 PM |
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pghjoe
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2009 : 2:10:58 PM
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If one was to replace the engines with new 350 crate engines, wouldn't you have to replace everything else also? ie, manifolds, exhaust, connections to transmittion, power, etc.?
It would seem that you couldn't just switch out the block that easy...but if I'm wrong, that would be incredible.
Thanks
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Jimbo Song
238 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2009 : 5:57:23 PM
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No. most of your running gear will bolt right up. One thing to watch for though. Your 1987 probably has counter rotating engines. i.e one turns right hand and the other turns left. So, you have counter rotating props.
I don't think they make counter rotating engines any more. Counter rotation is accomplished in the tranny on newer boats. So I'm not so sure they even make counter rotating engines any more. So, with totally new crate engines you may need to change out one of your trannys. But remember, your trannys have just as many hours as your engines so you certainly want to have them gone through at the same time anyway so the cost differential may not be all that much.
Personally, I would recommend doing so and stepping up to new EFI crate engines. In the long run it will be well worth the money.
quote:
Originally posted by pghjoe
If one was to replace the engines with new 350 crate engines, wouldn't you have to replace everything else also? ie, manifolds, exhaust, connections to transmittion, power, etc.?
It would seem that you couldn't just switch out the block that easy...but if I'm wrong, that would be incredible.
Thanks
1987 Carver Voyager 28
Jimbo Song |
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Topic |
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Buying 28 Carver Mariner
