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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 10:06:56 AM
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| Well rockmeister, now I know who to call for mechanical troubles lol... your chat of fuel pumps reminds me that I am looking for a mechanical fuel pump with glass bowl for my 302Ford. Do you know if they are still available or where? tx ~ Steve |
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BillMiller74344
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 01:06:24 AM
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Rockmeister, having read all you trial and tribulations it sounds just like what I went through with the "Overdraft" I too had problems with the port engine and even went to the expense of rebuilding both of the Holley carbs and converting them to marine configuration. I still couldn't get full power out of the port engine, but the problem was not consistant. I replaced the original plastic fuel pickup in the fuel tanks with a stainless steel stinger that goes straight down in the tank. The end of the 3/8" tube is covered with a fine mesh screen. Still did not solve problem.
Next step as I had tried everything else was to do away with the original mechanical fuel pumps and install a set of Holley Red Top electric fuel pumps. I replaced all the pressure lines with Aeroquip stainless steel braided fuel lines. Made a very nice installation.
Thought I had the problem fixed until the first sea trial at which time the port engine died and would not start. I determined there was no fuel getting to the carb and removed the Holley fuel pump. At that point the problem was evident. The Holley would not digest the gunk coming out of the fuel tank as it was packed full. Not sure how it got by the fine mesh screen but it did. Next step was to install a inline cannister type fuel strainer upstream of each fuel pump. From that point on it has been successful. It appears the ethanol that is now in fuel (thankyou Globlal Warmest)is cleaning out the 33 year old fuel tanks. It has been a whole season now on the original cannester fuel filters so will be pulling them shortly for replacement. I plan to cut one apart to see what it has trapped.
wam |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 12:29:33 PM
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Success!!!
Bypassed the mechanical fuel pump and the engine runs great!
Can even hear the four barrels kick in. 
Weird thing is, when tested the starboard pump worked better than the port one.
Go figure. Thinking I didn't run the test long enough possibly.
Thank you for the ideas guys!
Woodboat: Haven't seen the glass ones for a while except on Ford Tractors, TSC carries them.
Would suggest putting a regular fuel pump on and a water seperator/fuel filet up where you can get to it easily for service.
The seperators are pretty cheap and have big easy screw on filters.
Hi Bill!
Have 2 filters and a water seperator on mine to help catch the junk.
Dale had the best idea I have seen for cleaning the tank/fuel, he put an electric fuel pump on the tank, ran all the fuel through clear throw-away filters and back into the tank. Let it run for hours.
Used the idea on mine and it worked great!
Like others, I got alot of white powder out of mine, I believe it is aluminum oxide from over the years.
Just ordered another 100 AH AGM battery for the stereo, should get me back up to about 10 hours of runtime now at serious power... Grinz
After adding more amplifiers, the runtime dropped considerably to about 5 hours at full power.
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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sea bitt
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 1:06:59 PM
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Keep us up to day with all the items you are doing. I’m learning a lot from your thread. Sounds like you have enough speaker energy to drive the boat with out engines by sound waves. Thanks for taking the time to update and continue the adventure.
Bruce
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 12:52:47 PM
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Hi Bruce!
Thank you for the encouragement!
(Ron used to do that, but I'm thinking he has gotten too old/lazy to type or something... lol)
*Hides under desk*
lol about the sound energy, it does create ripples in the water, pretty impressive... 
On my way back last weekend, my alternators were not charging again, good thing everything is isolated from the start/run battery.
Pulled the alternators and brought them home.
Turns out one tested fine, the other had burnt one brush halfway down in a couple weeks and had a blown regulator.
Have no idea yet why the functional one wasn't working...
The shop guy (He is great!) thinks the blown one had a problem with a ground.
So I will replace all the engine to battery grounds this weekend. Also will run an 8 guage ground to the engine from the alternator to replace the current 12 ga ground wire.
Let ya know how that goes...
Talking with a friend, think I have a workable theory on the fuel pump problem I found. If the fuel pump has a bad return spring, it won't work well at higher RPMs due to the pump not riding up and down on the drive cam, rather it is mostly "floating" in the pressed position, that would explain the low fuel flow at higher RPMs (Should be higher flow), yet proper flow at lower RPMs.
Think I will just leave the electric one, IT'S WORKING! 
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 08/21/2008 12:58:07 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 3:16:45 PM
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I renamed the thread to closer match the direction it has taken.
This weekend re-mounted alternators.
Installed new 8 guage ground wires to engine blocks from alternators.
While running new 8 guage hot wire from alternator to the solenoid on the port engine, pressed the red circuit breaker reset button as I usually do.
"Click!"
Hmmmmmmm...
A flash bulb goes off in my head...
Start thinking about the alternator and a number of other electrical ghosts, and how they relate to the "click" I just heard...
A while back I had an issue with not having power at the ignition switch.
Had run a temp jumper as a temp fix until I found the issue.
Everything else besides the V berth light was working...
(The V berth light is haunted... lol)
Had a good alternator that wasn't charging.
Bingo!!! 
The alternator runs through the circuit breaker, so does the ignition power.
When the boat was built, the alternators were capable of lower current, most likely 40 or less amps.
The new alternators are about 70 amps each, enough to trip the breakers.
Then the ignition loses power, the engine will continue to run, powered by the alternator until you shut it off, then it won't restart because of no power at the switch.
I installed a fusable link across the breaker as a temp fix, will look for an 80 or 100amp breaker to replace the current 40 amp breaker.
Moral of the story: GM 10si and 12si alternators will bolt right up to the ford engines easily.
If you replace the alternator(s) with a larger current, you must change or replace the circuit breaker on the back of the engine at the same time to match the higher current capability.
After fixing the electrical issue, I made and installed a new mounting board for the 2nd AGM stereo battery.
Wired 4guage jumpers in from the 1st battery to the 2nd.
Installed new battery.
The electric fuel pump works great at high RPMs, but has a tendency to flood the engine at idle making the engine occasionally stall at idle. Usually this happens right when you are docking... What a pain.
Thats a problem with electric fuel pumps, their pressure curve is the opposite of what you need. As you use more fuel, (higher RPMs) their pressure drops off.
A good working mechanical pump gets higher pressure as you increase RPMs.
Not sure what I want todo with this one yet.
Running across the lake I noticed the port engine oil pressure is low.
Shut down and check out.
Open hatch...
Greeeaaaaaat...
There is oil in my bilge. 
I check the oil on that engine and find it low, have to add 2 quarts to bring it back up.
It is obviously leaking externally somewhere into my nice clean bilge.
Run into port not wanting to mess with it...
A quick check doesn't reveal anything immediately.
Uses another 2 quarts to go 24 miles to home port.
Will check out this $%^&* problem this weekend...
Grrrrrrrrr 
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 09/28/2008 10:46:59 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2008 : 3:14:54 PM
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Checked out the port engine, the oil loss seems to be due to blow-by.
Did not find any external leaks other than mist from the crankcase vent.
Added STP oil treatment to thicken the oil, and reduce the loss rate.
Only lost 1 quart in an hour, better, but not great...
Did find out that when the oil is 1 quart low, the oil pressure starts dropping, that means it has a crack in the oil pump pick-up tube or something to that effect, causing the oil pump to suck air.
Ordered 2 EN-valves, they maintain constant vacuum in the crankcase to help with these kind of problems. Will let you know how well they work when I get them and have them installed.
(STP is pretty thick, but the engine is used when it's warm and only has to hold up for 2 more months, then it gets rebuilt/replaced.)
Have a friend with a couple 351s, will most likely rebuild those and put them in this winter.
Installed the electric fuel pump on the starboard engine, worked great.
Other than the oil issue, had a great weekend and beautiful weather!
Dale and his daughter stopped by just as we were about to depart Sat, we stayed and enjoyed a good conversation with them.
The 2nd AGM battery on the stereo worked great! At least 9 hours of run time so far!
Don't really know yet, because the voltage never dropped off on them after 9 hours.
The ACRs definitely make things easy, just start the boat and go, when you get to your destination, turn the keys off. Nothing to even think about with the batteries.
The Alternators are working great. I ordered an 100A Ammeter ($25 or so on ebay) and shunt for remote read of use and charging current, as the charging voltage doesn't tell you much when the batteries are nearing 80% full. (The voltage will read about 14 volts for the last 20% of the charging cycle.)
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 09/03/2008 3:44:45 PM |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 12:17:21 PM
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Interesting about the e fuel pumps... surveyor here will not pass e fuel pump on a boat... are these special and/or special installation?
"Installed the electric fuel pump on the starboard engine, worked great."
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 10:17:46 AM
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Woodboat: Nothing special about the e-pumps, they are Mr gasket pumps from Advance Auto.
I will eventually put another mechanical fuel pump on when I rebuild the motors, but they are working NOW! lol
They are wired to the ignition switch, only powered when the engine is on.
I installed the EN-Valves this weekend. Pretty simply to install, followed the directions to the letter, you simply replace the PCV valve with the EN-valve and plug the air intake breather on the opposite valve cover.
Definitely creates a vacuum in the crankcase, so much in fact, it sucked the oil right out of the engine! NOT a good thing!
When I took the cap out of the breather, they worked perfectly!
They are now able to keep up with the blow-by and keep the blow-by from blowing oil out of the engine.
Pretty happy with how they work. I did a best offer deal on E-bay for them. Normally $40 each, I offered $30 each for 2 of them and they accepted.
Overall, I can recommend the EN-valves, just LEAVE THE BREATHER OPEN!
I do have a few minor reservations about them. Under normal conditions, the PCV valve is a calibrated vacuum leak and the carb/EFI is adjusted to compensate for this.
The EN-valve adjusts itself to maintain a constant vacuum in the crankcase, so its function as a vacuum leak may be constantly changing, thereby changing the air/fuel mixture.
I only see this as a possible problem at or near idle, as the amount of possible air added to the mixture is very minor at cruising speed/RPMs.
As of now the valve hasn't caused a lean condition at idle, so far, so good.
I did get some after pics of the Radar Arch mounted on the boat, will post them in the "TOWER" thread. It looks gooooood!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2008 : 3:19:58 PM
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Spent alot of last week sewing new plastic windows into the old canvas.
The existing stuff had turned brown with age and was cracking, looked pretty pitiful.
I needed to replace it to last until the end of the year, will totally replace it when I sew the new tops.
Laid the new plastic over the existing and sewed it into place. Trimmed the new plastic and cut the old stuff out after sewing.
That way I just used the old stuff as the pattern.
It doesn't fit super smooth because I had to adjust the old bows to fit under the radar arch for now.
The only stuff I could find local that was low cost was dark tinted. Figured the windshield and side windows are clear, so it wasn't much of an issue. Can always leave the back open for sight at night.
I know that when I make the new canvas, all the plastic will be replaceable by being a seperate piece that snaps and velcros in place. That way the plastic can be replaced without all this major work! All the windows will also have screens that snap in also.
Definitely looks alot better!
The tint really looks cool, even though it is pretty dark at night! lol
You can also see more pics of the windows and the arch in the Tower thread.
It poured down rain Sat, made for a pretty good test. The top canvas wasn't sealed very well so I waited until it dried and sprayed it with Thompsons SportSeal, it is made for tents and is available at Menards.
Sun it poured even harder and the wind blew like crazy!!! Made for another great test! lol
The top didn't leak a drop Sun! Yeah!
Permanently wired and installed a 1800W 12vdc to 120vac inverter in the starboard locker, so I have 120v on demand without having to connect the inverter to a battery each time. Pretty handy & it runs the microwave (Biggest common wattage user on the boat), so all is good!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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BillMiller74344
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2008 : 11:36:59 PM
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rockmeister, what is an EN-Valve. Have not heard of this type device. I too have more blowby on my port engine and would like to come up with something like this to carry away the fumes. It's not bad enough to consider an engine overhaul.
Bill
wam |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 10:34:27 AM
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Hi Bill!
The EN valve keeps a constant vacuum on the crankcase to help collect blowby.
So far, they have worked pretty well, just install them without the caps as noted above.
I know what you mean about not quite needing an overhaul yet, an engine can have blowby for many years and still be ok. They usually run fine after warming up.
The pistons expand and the compression comes up.
http://www.envalve.com/
I bought them here on ebay.
http://stores.ebay.com/enovative-items-1of-a-kind
Offered them $30 each and they accepted, so I'm pretty sure you could also.
(Might even try $20 and $25 each, they will give you 3 chances and you know they will take $30)
Hope this helps!
Used the inverter this weekend to run the blender on the back deck at the beach to make "Adult" drinks.
How cool and easy!
I like this!
The port engine died at one point and wouldn't restart.
Tracked it down to the new electric fuel pump. It had died. Apparently "infant mortality".
Will exchange at Advance Auto for a new one and keep it for a spare.
I really only needed it for the starboard engine.
Just reconnected the mechanical fuel pump and it started right up.
Everything ran pretty well and had good weather.
If everything stays like this until the end of the year, I will be happy!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 09/23/2008 10:37:59 AM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2008 : 10:35:24 PM
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Exchanged the electric fuel pump at Advance Auto.
Absolutely no problem, just gave me a new one. Will keep as a spare.
I had ordered a 100A ammeter a while back, received it.
However...
The instructions say that it can't be used with ANY commom electrical connections between the sensed circuit (battery amperage) and the supply circuit (the battery that powers the meter).
Greeeeeaat... This about makes it worthless, because I don't want to have to put a totally seperate battery in just for this stupid meter.
I write the seller on ebay and he says I need a dc-dc convertor/isolator and of course he sells them for $10.
What bull! I wrote and stated that I felt he should have mentioned that in his listing or should have included the isolator.
He writes back that he can give me a 30% discount on the isolator, so I write back I will accept that and how does he want to make it happen.
Never hear from him again. Write him twice and no response.
Greeeeeeeaat again...
Finally just order the stupid $10 isolator (without the $3 discount he promised) just to get it done.
So hopefully I will end up with a usable ammeter.
I did find a combination ammeter/voltmeter with red backlighting on ebay for about $75.
This one came from England as opposed to China, have communicated with the seller many times and he appears to be much more upstanding.
AND, the meter will work with a common supply.
Waiting on delivery of the 2nd meter and the isolator for the first one.
Will put one on the bridge, and the 2nd in the electrical panel in the cabin.
A friend of mine has the River Raisen Marina in Monroe, MI. Had a party there this Sat and had a blast!
More friends have a band and played live at the party.
The blender came in very handy! lol
No problems, just had a lot of fun!
My daughter, her friend, and I had a great run on the lake today. water was calm!
Worked with my daughter on how to dock the boat today, she was nice and smooth.
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 11/04/2008 09:45:43 AM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 09:38:17 AM
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Haven't been out on the lake much, but am still in the water.
Been doing dozer work at the marina on the weekends and just staying on the boat at night.
Having heat and a shower on the boat is awesome!
Woke up one morning and the generator had run out of fuel, so no heat.
Was coooold!
Could see my breath in the boat!
Thinking pull her out in a couple weeks...
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2008 : 8:30:53 PM
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Took the last cruise of the year this weekend to pull her out of the water.
Was great to be on the water, yet sad that it is the last cruise of the year.
Prior to pulling the boat, did get a pic of snow on the back deck, and broomed off the snow.
Winterized the engines last night while snow was blowing like crazy!
I had to laugh.
Winterized the water system, shower drain & pump, and the heat/air conditioning also.
Prior to winterizing, plumbed in some isolation valves and a drain valve for the hotwater heater.
Otherwise it takes 10 gallons of anti-freeze to winterize.
This way I can just drain the hotwater tank (had no drain prior), run some anti-freeze through it, and bypass the rest for the system.
Took only a couple gallons now.
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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2008 & 2009 Season!
