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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 5:19:03 PM
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Heyya Dale!
You have a message! :)~
A couple pics I promised...
This was the way I used the hoist to pull the engine.
Removed the 3' existing extendable section of the hoist...
Replaced it with a 14' 2x3x1/4" steel square tube.
Used 4 straps to hold the hoist down to the truck.
2 went directly to the frame of the truck.
This allowed us to get the engine directly into the boat above where we needed it.
The hoist was loooong... lol
Yet worked awesome!!! 
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 06/05/2009 5:23:50 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 1:00:50 PM
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With the new engine in the boat and the boat still in dry-dock, went to fire her up and...
Crank, crank, crank...
No fire...
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Double-check all timing etc.
Everything checks out...
More Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Find erratic spark.
Suspect electronic ignition or coil etc.
Disconnect wire to Tach from coil.
Engine fires right up! Eureka! (I think)
Let it run for a few minutes and the water temp starts cycling up and down...
More Grrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Double-check thermostat, is in correctly.
Dig through trash and locate old thermostat,replace new one with old one.
Start engine, warms to 160 and stays there.
Funny, new thermostat bad, well used old unknown age thermostat good... go figure... lol
Get boat ready to transport 10 blocks to the lift.
Transport boat to lift.
Set boat in water...
Attempt to start New Port Engine...
Crank, crank, crank...
Nothing...
More Grrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Try Starboard engine...
Crank, crank, crank...
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
(This is getting old...) laffin
Pull Starboard hatch, engine has no fuel.
Turn on electric fuel pump.
Wait...
Finally starts to pull fuel, engine fires up.
Ok, better, something is running...
Someone is waiting for the hoist, so I need to move.
Wind is blowing hard from the starboard stern and I have only the starboard engine and have to back into the wind...
So...
Of course I go to the left...
Find an open slip and back into it without much finesse...
(I pride myself on my smooth docking skills, and this one was NOT pretty...) lol
Open port hatch.
Stare at awesome looking engine that won't run...
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...  lol
Try multiple things, and finally jumper 12 volts from the battery straight to the coil...
Fires right up!
WoooHooo!!!
Pull into a non-rented slip.
Clean up so much stuff on the boat it's unreal...
Get ready to make way before an approaching storm hits...
(I need to head to my Marina, am currently at another Marina that is not mine, they just have a hoist that is close by.)
Go to fire Port engine...
Crank, crank, crank...
Consider suicide...
Nawww... like boating too much... LMAO
Jumper 12v straight to coil again, finally fires.
(Runs super once it fires, at least so far...)
Make way down river to the lake.
Once out of no wake zone, jumps right up on plane.
(Good thing because the water is very shallow!)
Everything runs smoooooth...
Until...
New shiny Port engine starts loosing power... 
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Back off throttle a bit and it runs ok...
Fair enough, I can handle this, it's runnning...
Good cruise, then as we head due north, there is a serious storm cell just a few miles North of us, strong and moving fast...
We drop down to idle to let it pass and not head into it. (It's moving east.)
Watch this AWESOME lightning show!!!
(Glad we were not PART of it! lol)
Next thing ya know, it is pouring so hard, you cannot see the bow of the boat or any lights on shore.
(Can't see anything for that matter...)
So we just continue to idle until the storm passes and we can see again.
(It's times like these, GPS makes you feel alot more comfortable.)
PS I sprayed Thompson's Sport Seal on the canvas top last year, the stuff is IMPRESSIVE!
No leaks even in a torrential downpour. I like...
Storm passes and we jump right back on plane.
I'm liking so far...
Pull into my Marina and dock.
Everything goes well.
Attempt to start Port engine...
Nothing, just cranks...
Hmmmm...
Engine got us here, ran very well once it starts...
Know it is something minor, so I'm pretty happy. 
Will find and fix next week.
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 06/08/2009 1:43:42 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 1:23:01 PM
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The Port engine runs well once running, was just hard to start and did not do well under heavy load (at higher RPMs).
Also had erratic firing as indicated by the timing light.
These are all signs of poor spark.
(Hard to start, lack of power under load, erratic spark.)
So I know it is either bad ignition module, coil, or wiring.
(Had previously eliminated wiring as a possibility.)
When I switched to electronic ignitions, had kept a coil and point set as back-ups.
Switched the coil, simply because it was easiest to do.
Engine fires right up and runs perfectly! YEAH!
Take out for a test run, runs perfect!
Great power!
One thing that amazed me, getting the engine balanced was a definite plus!!!
When it is running, there is almost NO vibration!
It is so smooth, I keep thinking it died!
You can literally put your hand on it when it's running and feel almost no vibration!
VERY pleased!
At less than $200, balancing the engine was very worth doing.
Installed re-worked double pully on the crank to replace my temporary single groove pully.
Fit perfect, went well.
Most of Sat was spent tying up loose ends and cleaning the boat, getting it ready for summer fun.
Took a cruise Sunday and the boat ran perfect.
Definitely like this, even my bilge is now clean.
I am ok with this...
Next week will do the first oil change on the new engine.
Have at least 10 heat/cool cycles on the engine (this relieves cast in stresses in new parts) and a few hours running time.
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 06/08/2009 1:47:00 PM |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 08:07:31 AM
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Great Story Rock, thanks for sharing... I too will have my challenges soon... have not run my old engines in four or five years...
Still working on the shorepower/AC wiring (full replacement of everything) and am told that the AC panel ground (green) must be connected to the DC ground (black) ... is this right? ... tx ~ Steve |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 10:18:37 AM
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Hi Steve!
You are welcome!
Yes, most marine wiring says to connect the AC Green(Ground) to DC Black(Negative).
(If ANY corrosion problems develop, put a galvanic isolator in the AC ground wire that connects to the DC negative.)
Would suggest pulling the spark plugs and squirting some oil into all the cylinders now to let them soak. Will cut down on the surface rust and make it less likely to break a ring when you first crank the engine.
Working the engines free by hand would be a good idea also. 
Take it you found a suitable low cost AC panel?
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
Western Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 06/09/2009 10:20:25 AM |
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monterey74
USA
51 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2009 : 10:41:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by woodboat
Great Story Rock, thanks for sharing... I too will have my challenges soon... have not run my old engines in four or five years...
Still working on the shorepower/AC wiring (full replacement of everything) and am told that the AC panel ground (green) must be connected to the DC ground (black) ... is this right? ... tx ~ Steve
Steve,
Yep that is right AC ground (green) connects to DC ground (black) on a boat. It is also important to ground all the metal through-hull components below the water line: prop shafts, struts, rudders, cooling water intakes, drain plug, etc.... While you are messing around with the boat's wiring make sure that your fuel tank and deck mounted fuel fill are both securely grounded.
If you look at the wiring in a household breaker box, the ground and neutral are essentially the same thing. They both connect to a grounding stake that is driven into the earth to provide a ground. On a boat, however, the neutral (white) and ground (green) wires in your AC circuit must always be isolated from each other. The neutral on the boat is provided by the white wire in your shore power cable only.
Also, an important safety feature on a boat is a reverse polarity indicator. This is usually a small light or buzzer that has one wire connected to the neutral bus and the other wire connected to the ground bus in your electrical panel. If the polarity of your shore power hookup is ever reversed and the neutral wire becomes the hot wire on your boat, the reverse polarity indicator will be activated.
Once again I refer to Don Casey for good information on boats:
"Safe Shorepower" by Don Casey http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/36.htm
Brett
1974 2885 Monterey
1978 2896 Mariner (Parts Boat) |
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monterey74
USA
51 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2009 : 12:24:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rockmeister
Would suggest pulling the spark plugs and squirting some oil into all the cylinders now to let them soak. Will cut down on the surface rust and make it less likely to break a ring when you first crank the engine.
Working the engines free by hand would be a good idea also.
Rock is absolutely right about lubing the cylinders before cranking the engine. When I bought my Monterey the engines had not been run in 5 - 8 years. The starboard engine was seized and could not be turned by the starter. I removed all the plugs and lubricated all the cylinders, then let it soak. After a week or so I tried again and the engine broke loose and spun like it should. There did not appear to be any permanent damage to the cylinders.
I would suggest using a good penetrating oil as the lube, something like "Kroil" or "PB Blaster". It is also not a bad idea to run the engines as if you are just breaking them in after a rebuild for the first 5 - 10 hours. This will give the rings a chance to "seat" (wear down any imperfections on the cylinder walls) before the engine is subjected to the rigors of normal use. Following your "break in" period an oil change is recommended.
In the future it is a good idea to remove the plugs and spray some fogging oil into each cylinder and work it in as part of your winterization process, although I admit that I skipped that step on my boat last fall.
Brett
1974 2885 Monterey
1978 2896 Mariner (Parts Boat) |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 6:54:14 PM
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Thank You both, Brett and Rock... I did fog the engines through the carb when winterized that year. Would WD40 be ok to spray into the cylinders?
The panel I purchased was this Blue Seas item... tinned stranded marine wire, ring terminals, GFCI etc... 500+ bucks to wire up a little boat!
I really could have used four or even five circuits, but decided to install a (lighted) on/off switch for the HWT - this is on the same line as the microwave, so just flip it off when I need the micro. Fridge and a couple of other outlets on the second circuit and the battery charger and other galley outlet on the third.
Re panel, am running a 12 gauge since that is all I could find locally in green. Rudder posts, engines & shaft logs and seacocks are all wired to ground, but not my drain plugs. So the fuel tank must be grounded to negative 12v too? I did ground the fill spout to the tank, but will have to see about where/how to ground the tank to -12vDC if required... tough to put a screw into the tank, no?
Finally, my appologies for hijacking this thread.  ~ Steve |
Edited by - woodboat on 06/09/2009 6:55:31 PM |
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monterey74
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 8:12:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by woodboat
Thank You both, Brett and Rock... I did fog the engines through the carb when winterized that year. Would WD40 be ok to spray into the cylinders?
The panel I purchased was this Blue Seas item... tinned stranded marine wire, ring terminals, GFCI etc... 500+ bucks to wire up a little boat!
I really could have used four or even five circuits, but decided to install a (lighted) on/off switch for the HWT - this is on the same line as the microwave, so just flip it off when I need the micro. Fridge and a couple of other outlets on the second circuit and the battery charger and other galley outlet on the third.
Re panel, am running a 12 gauge since that is all I could find locally in green. Rudder posts, engines & shaft logs and seacocks are all wired to ground, but not my drain plugs. So the fuel tank must be grounded to negative 12v too? I did ground the fill spout to the tank, but will have to see about where/how to ground the tank to -12vDC if required... tough to put a screw into the tank, no?
Finally, my appologies for hijacking this thread. ~ Steve
WD-40 really does not contain much lubricant that sticks around. It is great for displacing water and for cleaning, but a true penetrating oil will not evaporate away.
I have been impressed with Blue Seas products, very nice. 12awg wire may be a bit thin as a ground on an AC system that is set up for 30 amps. It may be noted as deficiency on a survey. 10awg or thicker would be better for the ground wire and the main AC inlet wire from your shore power connector.
The fuel tank should be grounded like the filler spout to prevent build up of static electrical charges. Usually the ground is required for proper functioning of the fuel gauge sender unit as well. Most fuel tanks have a designated grounding tab that a wire may be attached to.
From my understanding of marine wiring, you want to keep all conductors that are in the water at the same ground potential. This serves to prevent a source of electric shock should you come in contact with more than one of these conductors at a time. It also serves to limit galvanic corrosion of the submerged metal parts of your boat.
Brett
1974 2885 Monterey
1978 2896 Mariner (Stripped down to the gunwale and ready to cut) |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 9:09:13 PM
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Nice Panel Steve!
I like!
The number of circuits should be sufficient, barely, but sufficient.
The 12 Ga for ground is ok for all the fittings connections, it is pretty normal to downsize the ground wire one size.
The ground wire from the Panel to the cord connector should be 10GA though.
I put the chargers on mine on a totally separate breaker TOTALLY independent of the panel you are now wiring.
Reason being, if the cord is plugged in, my batteries charge, no matter what anyone does to the main power panel.
(Also turn the main off when not on the boat, ONLY the chargers are still connected.)
Doing that would also buy you a breaker space in this panel.
The ground on the tank can be accomplished by using a hose clamp to connect the ground wire around something like the fill connection.
Mine uses one of the level sensor mounting screws to ground the fuel tank.
Suggest anti-corrosion grease on the connections also (panel & elsewhere), you can get it at most any hardware store/building supply.
As Brett mentioned would suggest PB Blaster or simply regular engine oil, they both have real oil in them.
Also agree with changing the oil & filter soon just like a new engine, lots of small bits of rust will be in it.
PS Will beat ya later for the hi-jacking... lol
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
Western Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 9:16:06 PM
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One other note:
The charger plug on mine is not GFCI protected, as it is not easily accessible for general use and is a dedicated outlet.
(That way a false trip cannot contribute to a sinking boat.)
This is the only outlet on my boat besides the fridge outlet that is not GFI protected.
Also changed all my GFI outlets to ones with an LED in them that indicates when the power is ON (as opposed to being tripped), that way I have immediate visual indication of power or a problem.
These worked great!
Would highly suggest them!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
Western Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 09:29:42 AM
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| Gentlemen, Thanks for all this. SP inlnet to panel is #10. Will be checking on tank ground today... was thinking that the ground for the sending unit would need to be there, but that this was isolated from the tank itself... but now I understand the tank itself shoud be grounded to -12v ... ... have the lighted GFI's ... Like the idea of separate circuit for BatCrgr. ... later lol. Working on the 12V systems yesterday and today as I ripped out quite a bit of it some years ago. New (fused) circuits for the bilge pumps... Thanks again guys. ~ Steve |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 10:10:07 AM
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Performed oil and filter change on new engine, no great surprises, just relatively clean oil.
Napa gold filter (They are made by Wix, a very good filter.)
15w-40 Oil, it is actually Diesel motor oil which has ZDDP (zinc) in it, with much higher anti-wear properties.
It's not required in the new roller block, but it IS required in my Starboard engine which is still a flat tappet block.
It is simply easier to keep the oils the same with the added advantage of higher anti-wear properties.
The new engine has about 75-80 pounds of oil pressure at idle and anywhere with-in the RPM range, even when the oil is hot.
Gotta like that! Bearing wear should be incredibly slow!!! lol
(The Starboard engine oil pressure is 60+ psi at idle cold, and about 40 psi warm. Runs about 50 psi at cruise when oil is hot. So some engine wear on the remaining older engine, but not bad at all.)
Did not use any oil in over 10 hours of break-in, not bad at all...
I LOVE being to easily just jump right up on plane with plenty of reserve power!!!
Seems almost effortless now, Gotta love that!
The New Port engine water temp runs right at 160 degrees F, at idle or under any load.
Starboard will Run at 150 until you push it hard at which point it will start to climb to 190 or so.
Back off the throttle a bit and the temp drops right back down to 150 or so.
This can be caused by a few things:
*Poor spark.
(As I just had to replace the Port ignition coil, am going to replace the same age Starboard coil also as it is a likey problem.)
*Lean condition.
This is possible, yet unlikely.
The fuel pump is brand new and pumping fine, all filters new and good. Plugs read good.
*Limited (restricted) cooling water.
Ran into this on this engine once before, it has small rocks in the inlet end of the trans cooler exchanger. It has a screen on the inlet that caught them.
Pulled the hose before and picked them out with needle-nose pliers.
Pulled the hose this weekend, and pulled some slimy seaweed out of it, think, "OK got it!"
Take for a cruise, no change...
So will take apart pump and check impeller next.
While taking a shower, the shower pump started slowing down until it basically stopped, will take apart this weekend and see whats going on with it. 
Really like having hot water and a shower on the boat, so I consider this a needed item... lol
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
Western Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 06/16/2009 10:13:50 AM |
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Bob On This
USA
174 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 12:30:13 PM
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Hey Rock,
I have always been told to use a straight weight oil (W-30) in boat
gas engines because of the relative low running temps.
Anything under 160 Deg. F and your 15W-30 is acting like a W-15 oil?
Have you ever heard this, or am I all wet?
Bob
Diver Down |
Edited by - Bob On This on 06/16/2009 12:32:03 PM |
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2008 & 2009 Season!
