| Author |
 Topic  |
|
maritime
USA
8 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2008 : 09:10:48 AM
|
Hey everyone, New to this forum and was wondering if anyone has advice... i bought a 1980 28' Carver Santa cruz that was docked on Long island sound Ny, Thew boat has twin inboared 350 crusaders and brand new 80 gal tanks..
To start off we fueled up and sailed the boat from oysterbay to Freeport Long Island. along the whole way we were getting broad sided on our Starboard side, half way there our starboard enginge cuts off and can not start back up we we were able to get home on one engine, To our surprise we found water in the stbd tank and started pumping out about 8 gallons of water, we pumped out the tank as much as we could at empty and added dry gas and about 20 gallons of fuel and it starts but once i go past 1500-2000 rpms its automatically cuts out... my question is whats going on, and how did i get so much water in one tank? could it be from the fuel vapor line it seems too small to get such an amount of water
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 10:18:21 AM
|
How are the O-rings on the gas cap?
Water that runs down the gunwale could enter the gas tank through a cracked fill fitting and/or loose hose, missing/damaged o-ring, etc.
Is there an anti-siphon loop on the vent line?
The vent line should loop UP from the tank past the vent fitting, then down to the vent fiting, this helps prevent water entry.
You could still have some water in the secondary bowl, that could explain the cutting out at hgher rpms.
Hope this helps!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 08/27/2008 09:21:16 AM |
 |
|
|
maritime
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 12:59:37 AM
|
Thank you for the advice Rockmeister, I looked at the fuel fill and seems a little stripped it should definitely be changed that might be a cause, also im not much of a mechanic and learning little by little each day but what and were is the secondary bowl located?
I took apart the 1 1/2 inch filter located at the carberator/fuel line and found that there was alot of debris caked inside which I cleaned out thinking it wasnt getting the right fuel intake and still seems to be sluggish at rpm's over 1500 rpm's, totaly clueles as to what to do next, but learning more and more each day through it all and reading up on this forum. |
|
|
|
Rustys84
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2008 : 02:42:08 AM
|
Hello guys, it has been a long time since I have posted- and a long time since I have been running the boat. That is why I wanted to add my new found experience with water in the gas. I don't believe that I have a leak in my tanks, I am pretty sure it has more to do with almost 2 year old ethanol gas. I have been doing quite a bit of work in the engine compartment (contortionists smelly sharp steambath hell) the last month and pulled the carbs to have them rebuilt. When I got them back the stbd engine ran like a champ but there was a problem with the idle on the port. I pulled the port carb and took it back to the guy. He pulled it apart and said he had good news and bad news... good news he forgot to put a plug in the carb and it should work fine, bad news there was already some rust in the rebuilt carb from water in the gas. I freaked out and assumed the worst of course and thought I was going to have to pump out 120 gallons of gas. After scanning the internet and asking anyone I could find I am going to go a different direction. I am going to install a couple of Racor Model 660RRAC02 water seperators and replace the fuel filters. I have read good things about E-Zorb water remover that reacts with the ethanol to remove the water. This E-zorb stuff has no alcohol in it and will be fine for the fuel lines. I will then try to run the gas out of it... staying close to shore with a jesus cross, star of david, and little buddah man around my neck of course. If this works as planned, I will fill up with fresh gas, replace fuel and seperator filters again, and pull the carbs and drain the bowls. Wish me luck
I am also in the process of working on the thermostat housings. I removed the old paint and rust, new thermostats, new bolts, new paint, new hose clamps, new rubber stoppers, new gaskets, it looks great. New fuel lines is the next project after I get rid of the water.
I hope everyone is having a great boating season!
Rusty
1984 Mariner 2897
Dual 305 crusaders (220 model) and walter V-drives |
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 09:53:48 AM
|
First Problem: get rid of the water and gunk in your tanks.
To get rid of the debris and water in the tank you can filter all the gas in the tank without having to dispose of the existing fuel.
(Have to credit Dale for this idea!) Dale used an electric fuel pump and filtered all the fuel by pumping it through filters and back into the tank.
This will take a while, but definitely worth it!
You can get a funnel from West Marine that will trap water to get the majority of the water and use the water seperator for the remainder.
Use clear throw away filters from an automotive store for your first filter. Buy a number of them, you will use them.
Add a bottle of fuel injection cleaner to each tank to help loosen the debris.
Let it run long enough to filter all the fuel at least twice. This means if you have 50 gallons of fuel and a 25 Gallons per Hour pump, you will have to let it run for 4 hours to filter it twice.
50/25=2x2(Twice)=4 hours run time.
When you are finished, clean and/or replace every filter in the system, including the one on the carb.
2nd Problem: Change Fuel fill. It bolts through the gunwale using stop nuts (Nylocks) under the fiberglass. (3/8" on mine.) The nuts are NOT easy to get to, but possible.
Duct Tape a tough string to every tool you use here, if a tool falls behind the tank, how are you going to get it out? And if you don't get it out, will it rub a hole in your gas tank?
I would suggest replacing the fuel fill hose, as it will be brittle and very hard to work with. A new one will be much easier, that way you can just cut loose the old one. The fill hose just hose clamps to the tank and the fuel fill end. West Marine sells hose lube that really works great to re-install the hose! (Dipping the hose end in Hot water can help also.)
As you work on this, keep touching the outside of the fuel tank, to help prevent static electricity buildup. (Usually in high-humidity conditions, this isn't an issue, but just in case.) Keep the bilge blower on when doing ANYTHING with the fuel system, including the filtering.
Once you clean the tank, and clean/change the filters, the source of your gunk will be pretty much gone. Running a bottle of fuel injector cleaner (Or seafoam) in the fuel will pretty much take care of the remainder, just not real fast.
Hope this helps! 
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
Edited by - Rockmeister on 08/21/2008 09:58:27 AM |
|
|
|
maritime
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 7:59:41 PM
|
| Were are the bowls located so that i can drain the water out aswell? not much of a mechanic but learning |
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 8:26:57 PM
|
If you are talking about the filter bowls, they are usually right behind the hatch opening up high. Look for the gas lines running to them. They usually have a drain plug on the bottom to drain the water. Use a small bucket/can to catch the drainage.
The carb bowls depend on the type of carb. On Holley carbs you usually have to loosen one of the lower float bowl bolts to drain them.
On a quadrajet, most of them have a drain plug low on the bowl.
I usually stuff Bounty paper towels under the carb(s) to collect the drainage.
If the engine starts and runs, the amount of water in the carb will usually work itself out with some dry gas (Heat brand or similar), and some use.
The big thing is to clean up the source of all the junk and water. This is usually the tank(s).
THEN clean up the delivery system, hoses, filters, carbs, etc.
If you do it the other way around, you will do alot of work with little or very slow, frustrating results.
Hope this helps!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
|
|
|
Rustys84
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 9:16:21 PM
|
| Great tips Rock, thanks. By the way, did you ever complete your fiberglass radar arch? About a year or so ago I was going to weld a ladder style myself but didn't get around to it, it's about 15 down on the priority list. Glad to see your posts again! |
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 2:20:26 PM
|
Hey Rusty!
Hahahaha!
I know about the priority list!
Have new material for the interior and exterior and haven't had time todo them because of the $%^&*()! priority list..
lol
I sure did finish the arch.
It looks great and fits the boat like a glove!
Definitely some serious work!
Will do a write-up once I find the thread about it.
Rock
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
|
|
|
Rustys84
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 02:00:00 AM
|
Good deal! I can't wait to see your write up on the arch. After spending hours online and talking to people up and down the harbor I have decided to use the method that you wrote of to get rid of the water in the gas. A buddy lent me an electric fuel pump that will work just fine, but I am having trouble finding the West Marine "water funnel" that you wrote about. When you have a minute, could you link that item or one like on this board? I would appreciate it.
Glad to see you are still active on here and still hacking away at the old Carver!
-Rusty |
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
|
|
maritime
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 8:10:40 PM
|
Thanks for all your info Rockmeister, maybe you can help me one more time as you can see im not too familiar with engine work but eager to learn. The fuel filters that i have on each 350 crusader engines are connected directly to the engine itself. are these water seperators, when i inspect them there is water in the filter but not sure if they are water seperator filters, i was looking online on westmarine and saw Racor filters that have a clear bottom holder for water and can be drained do you think that i can add these filters to each fuel line from each tank before the actual engine fuel filter. Will that disturd the fuel flow to the engines themselves and starving them? i just want an easy way to drain the water from the fuel tanks and be on the safe side. last month i drained the tank as much as i could but still the starboard engine runs sluggish and still find little amounts of water still in the engine filter? Thanks for all your help this web page has helped me out with alot of questions... i dont have much time working on the boat since im a merchant marine and gone half of each month but doing little by little to make my carver shine..
I found this info on a random sight:
Not every manufacturer has put a filter/separator combination in their marine engines," notes Racor's MacDonald. "So it's best to do some legwork and check with the engine manufacturer to see if it is a good idea to add one
Fuel filter/water separators are measured two ways: by the density of the filter paper used-i.e. most marine engines use either 10 or 20 microns-the larger the number, the more debris is coming through to the engine. The average size for marine engines is 10 microns (a micron=1/1,000 of a millimeter for those taking notes). Diesel engines use smaller numbers; 2 microns is a common size. A filter is also measured by flow rate-i.e. how many gallons per hour will pass through. Marine engines can have a flow rate of 120 gph to 60 gph and even lower, depending on the size. Because diesel engines return the unused fuel to the tank, a higher flow rate is common. They consume, however, less fuel per hour on average than gasoline engines.
Racor makes a popular filter/separator for use on trailer boats, with a clear bowl at the bottom. This way, if water has been collected, you'll see it. If it's been installed properly, you'll be able to fit a paper cup beneath the bowl and drain the water
|
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 10:10:27 PM
|
You are welcome to ask questions!
If I can help, I will.
Rusty: I posted pics of the radar arch in process, they are in the "Tower" thread.
Maritime:
The filters I have seen that are mounted on the engine are also seperators. I can't say that the exact model you have is also a seperator though.
Does the engine mounted filter have a drain plug on the bottom? If it does, it most likely is a seperator also.
Have seen the clear one you mentioned they look great, but Im thinking they aren't USCG rated for inboard boats for some reason. I read about that somewhere.
Have you had a chance to clean/filter the fuel in the tanks?
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
|
|
|
Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 10:25:01 AM
|
Let us know how this goes, it helps others with the same problems!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
|
|
|
maritime
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 11:57:01 AM
|
| I will, Imaway at sea at the moment but will post the results as soon as possible, thanks for all the help |
|
|
|
Rustys84
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 04:08:55 AM
|
Thanks for showing the picks Rock- the arch looks awesome. I have yet to run the fuel through the funnel with the electric pump but hopefully this weekend. I also broke a coolant temperature sending sensor when cleaning up my thermostats. Does anyone know of a good site to order engine/electrical parts for crusaders?
I have some serious motivation now, the guy in the slip next to me caught 2 dorado and a yellowtail 3 miles out last weekend! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Major Water In Gas, long story
