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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2008 : 7:04:09 PM
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Hi again Fellow Carverers,
One of the 'projects' is to replace the rotten flybridge, which was built out of 3/4" and 3/8" plywood, with the thinner plywood joining the side panels. The thinner (forward facing) plywood was covered with painted nautilex originally and both it and the side panels had considerable rot. Even more rot is found in the panel where the steering and instruments mount.
So, I decided to keep most of the original design, however am increasing the 'depth' of the dash by some 2 inches and more significantly, decided to widen the flybridge by a full 16". This means relocating the various rails to the outboard (red arrows). Also, since I enclosed the cockpit, access to the flybridge (brown arrow) will now need to be from the sides of the vessel (both sides) and this will entail modifying/cutting the existing stainless rail (green). Can anyone tell me the easiest way to cut this rail? I do not have a vice, but can it be cut with a hacksaw? Please give me your thoughts - especially if you have done it. Thanks.
Such a mess of xtra wiring for defunct and missing items... most of the wiring (12v) will need to be cleaned up (much has already been done) and I am replacing all of the 120v lines... btw... am looking for a new panel for shore power - anyone got one to sell me?
Rough measurements were sketched out from the original panels, then adjusted for the modifications planned. The rotten ply 'hole' under the sketch is typical of the rot in the removed structure.
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Edited by - woodboat on 04/11/2008 7:07:59 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 01:01:10 AM
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Wow!
That is some serious work!
I am impressed as to how much you HAVE done!
Does remind me of a boat my Parents had when I was a kid, we had a 25' Owens Sea Skiff.
All wood, early to mid 60s.
We completely redid the boat from stem to stern.
However... It was NOTHING like this! lol
Ours was easy compared to yours!
Keep sending pics!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 3:26:55 PM
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The flybridge newbuild is taking it's time, but I am also working on the outside of the hull (filling and fairing), and on the roof of the boat (flybridge floor) filling holes left by the planned relocation of various rails and fastenings and also epoxy coating the new cockpit covering built previously (the very left bump-up part in this pic).
I am simply building this out of 3/4 and 1/2in GIS Fir Ply to be either painted or maybe natural finished (Cetol Marine)
Here I am beginning the 'fitting' of the various pieces, then back to the shop with them for modifications and new try at how things fit. This is a lot of up and down ladder and cross the yard with the various pieces. Not practical for me to have the various tools/saws etc on top of the boat with such limited headroom and cold temps.
All of the deck needs to be sanded and cleaned, then prepped/painted prior to the new finished fly being re-assembled on the deck.
So I am using the basic same design with modifications described earlier (wider/deeper), then all the parts and various backer items are to be pre-finished prior to reassembly in it's final resting place.
Here you can see how the basics will look. Now ready for dis-asembly and finishing in my little shop. What is not shown is some cheap cedar trim pieces that will surround the top edge of the ply. More on this soon.
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Edited by - woodboat on 04/28/2008 3:31:13 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2008 : 9:51:29 PM
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Looking great!
The easiest way I have ever seen to cut the stainless rail is with a thin cutting wheel on a hand grinder.
Also, there is a special drill bit you may need to drill the stainless rail.
A regular drill bit will rarely drill into it.
I found one at a Do-it-best center, they are made for stainless.
Hope this helps, awaiting more pics! : )
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2008 : 10:15:08 AM
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Thanks for this info rockmeister - does thin cutting wheel mean 1/8"? I have never used one of these, so wondering if this is difficult to do alone and how long the actual cutting takes. I presume there will be lots of sparks so guess I should not do this on the (wood) boat lol.
Will post a progress update soon. |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:30:33 AM
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Having completed the initial build of the new fly, it is into the paintshop we go. Decision was made to simply Cetol the plywood. I like the wood look (even if a bit orange) and was curious to how it would turn out/look. I can always paint over it later I figure.
These side panels are 8ft long tip to tip, 24in high at the xtrm. These are 3/4", while the front panels (not shown) are 1/2".
The trim pieces (made from Cedar 2x4's) and the fastening 'backers' for the various panels for the fly are here in the paint shop (my - ummm, back office lol). All the flybridge components get 3 coats of Cetol Marine on all sides and edges (except for the few small backers that will only get two... figure they won't need it.
Bottom side of the new dash...
The slot is for the steering control. The system has a spring clip that is deeply recessed. I could find no one in town who had a tool that could reach this to remove it, so the only alternative was to cut out the dash (old and new) to slide the steering off and on... and so it goes lol
I had originally intended to just Cetol the face of the dash too (meaning the G1S Fir plywood), but since I have numerous sheets of paperback mahogany veneer, I decided to epoxy up some to the top side of the ply dash. Now this was a new venture for me, and so I did this in two parts, then epoxy coated it to seal (with slightly thinned mix - about 5%).
I used a sheet of plywood and weights (cans of paint and bags of cement etc) to clamp it a bit. I do not have the ability nor equipment to vacuumbag although it would have given better results. Not that this did not work, but it's not perfect ;-)
This was then followed by the 3 coats of Cetol over time. Dang though, I forgot to sand between coats of everything, so fine furniture it aint lol... fits in good with the rest of my work ha ha.
When it rains, the rain would just run off the roof of the boat (the flybridge) and then fall into the window tracks, swamp them and flow inside (I previously rebuilt all the window tracks) when the drains got clogged with spiders and debris. So after much deliberation I decided to make and install rain water diverters... more on this in the next round.
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Edited by - woodboat on 05/07/2008 12:02:29 PM |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2008 : 7:54:00 PM
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Ok, here is the rain diversion program (lol) ... start with a quality boat building wood (knotty white pine), rip into 1/2"x 1/4" strips, clean the area a bit, slap on some thick epoxy on the bottom and nail the sucker in place.
...then sand down the top edges to create a rounded effect, and slap more thick epoxy to 'cove' the bottom edges. When dry, sand, then clear-coat with more epoxy to encapsulate. Sand again to remove the rough before eventual paint.
With the new cockpitafthardcover in place (the raised area you see here), I figured it would be nice to add some accent strips on either side like other areas of the boat. I made these of some pine boards I had lying around (also encapsulated in epoxy) and these too will receive the mahogany subfloor veneer...
My original plan (all good plans have a plan B) was to use the paperback mahogany veneer I have on hand and stick it to these accent 'strips' on the boat, but the logistics of 'clamping' or vacuum bagging such a large area were too large to overcome.
I also attempted to staple these unwieldy paperbacked veneer pieces in place, but it proved too difficult in test batches to get the paper veneer to stick in place smoothly. I also decided against using contact cement (and other glues) after spending several hours researching the possibilities on various forums and manufacturers websites. Final verdict is that the contact cement will soften enough in the baking sun to loosen the bond. So, plan B was to use meranti mahogany underlay (about 1/4" and 4x8ft sheets). Pretty cheap stuff, but I was able to find a few good sheets at the local lumber store... however you will see that getting a perfect match or even close in one case was impossible when piecing it all together. This excercise is really just to make the wood boat look more like a wood boat.
After rough measuring and cutting, I buttered these up and epoxied them to their new permanent home. Held in place with finishing nails, left to cure overnight before sanding all the edges down with a belt sander.
All the edges were then filled with thick epoxy to fill gaps between the original rounded boat surface and the mahog ply, then sanded followed by a clear-coat of epoxy to smooth the surface a bit. At the same time, I clear-coated all these mahog surfaces with slightly thinned epoxy to seal it up, to be followed by three coats of Cetol.
An idea of how this looks is coming up as is finalizing the bottom of the boat. And how's it been by You?
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Edited by - woodboat on 05/14/2008 7:56:28 PM |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 10:59:47 AM
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Some different things today...
Since I built the new aft enclosure to protect the engine bay from the weather and also provide more 'living' space inside and keep rain out of the bilge, the plan has always been to install used storm windows or the like in a frame
and have these as entrance/removable items to the aft of the boat.
Since space constraints do not allow for side-hinged doors, I plan to hinge at the top and swing up, then hook to the roof. This is likely to be a little awkward, but is really the only way I can do it. Two large removable windows will stow onboard when weather permits having these open. More on these later when they get installed.
To the left is one of these swing-up doors.
This is one of the two large (stern)removable windows. The glazing is a recycled aluminum storm. I was hoping for storm windows with opening sliders and screens, but could find none suitable, so will need to build screens for the openings - later... so the bugs don't get to me ;-)
I have purposfully used these steel tybars rather than epoxy/glue the frame together since my tools and ability preclude everything being perfectly square. This method of construction will allow me to 'tweak' the fit when the time comes. Once tweaked, then I
will also clear slilicone the glass/wood joints on the exterior to keep the water out. Doing this prior to installation could preclude my tweaking ability lol.
In the meantime, here is how these sort of look today after their independent construction. They are still weeks away from being installed and tweaked.
After considerable debating, I decided to remove (permanently) the large full width patio door. Aside from this substantial weight (removing it will balance most of what I am adding at the stern by way of new build).
This pic is from the summer I acquired the boat (2005 - last time it was in the water).
...Since I will be fully enclosed anyway, this will open up the interior to make the boat substantially larger in feel inside. When I want sun and weather, I will just go onto the flybridge or forward deck... Removal of this does present a little additional challenge in keeping the roof deck (flybridge solid and not moving/flexing too much sideways.
That's all on this stretch... are we boating yet?
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Edited by - woodboat on 05/21/2008 11:03:09 AM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 10:54:58 AM
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Yes, the cutting wheel is thin, a little less than 1/8" thick, about 1/16" to 3/32" usually. Yes, it will throw sparks, and they are Hot! The sparks will melt into glass and pit it.
Your work is looking good!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 4:43:24 PM
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Still plugging away, but it is getting rather warm in that tent/shelter I can tell you that much...
My inspector (3yr old Foxhound) ... I had my challenges keeping her from epoxy and paint lol. Since a few years ago (detailed in long ago posts) I sealed the inside of the keel and plywood with epoxy and cloth - after removing all the rot, the time came to do the same outside (without the cloth... you will recall from earlier posts a couple of years ago that my intent was to possibly cover the entire outside bottom of the boat with plywood or cloth or whatever... I ended up doing this on the entire inside of the boat instead. Still not sure if it was easier but now I know that the inside of the hull is 'correct' to my liking).
The gaps between the ply and the keel (previously caulked to some extent) were freed, then primed with thin epoxy followed by a thick fill and another thin coat to smooth. A bit of sanding was employed to take some of the roughness out, but for the most part it is still somewhat rough.
Also filled were various areas of rot and holes from three old depth sounders (removed). While the keel is now encapuslated, the rest of the bottom is not. I am most curious to see how this will all play out in the water (if she leaks and how the performance is in waves since she in theory will not be 'moving' and working as wood boats normally do. But lapstrake hulls generally do not move as much as planked boats anyway...
While the roughness will slow the boat somewhat, there was a limit to how much time I am willing to spend under the boat slopping epoxy into my hair and handling a belt sander with dust in my eyes while lying on my back in the dirt.
The paint going on the bottom is the same as I will use everywhere. It is a Benjamin Moore product called Metal and Wood Enamel (oil based and $50/gal). Most areas will receive 2+ coats. I am using paint factory colours for their high pigment value.
like my freehand waterline? ... doin' the waterline has it's challenges, mostly because I do not like it's positioning on the boat as it was and so intend to raise it at the stern (1"+) and lower at the stem (5"+). With the boat on the trailer and not level, I have spent much time calculating and estimating - and eventually committing.
Below is the mahogany trim with a clearcoat of epoxy. This receives 3 coats of Cetol Marine prior to leaving the 'shop'.
Below is some other new 'trim' coming into play... do you know where? (lol) more on this next time - along with a hint of more idiotdicity! 
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 11:07:39 AM
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Yes indeed, I have some old cedar (yes, I know) boards lying around and decided to 'dress up' the foredeck. These were 1x8 planks that I worked and epoxied to the deck (remember, this is the 'last save' of this boat so most of what I do on this Carver is 'permanent').
Laid the boards out for spacing, then cut them with my old jig saw and here I am shaping the rough cuts with a belt sander. Worked quite well I think.
This is the original deck 'look' and I did not like the look at all... a thin teak strip ran down both sides aft of the bow, and was missing parts as you go along... off it comes...
Also, since the flybridge construction and coating is now complete, I needed to paint the topsides of the boat before a final installation of the 20 or so parts that make up the new fly.
As I mentioned when doing the bottom, I am using a wood/metal paint (alkyd) ... it is a product that the local canoe building shop uses, so for my purposes is good enough...
I have seen an Owens years ago that had part of the top aft plank finished bright and I like this look and since I had this paper veneer thought I would try to fake it. Well, I made a mess of it really, used some subfloor ply wedged against the tent framing to hold it all in place - this did not work well and so tacked the plywood through the veneer into the hull to try to get it to stick flat. This too failed to do a 'flat' job but by then the epoxy had cured and the bubbles were relentless.
I then did a hack-job trying to fix the bubbles and made it worse. I learned a lot later on how to do this better... use many very small/thin nails and large wooden 'washers' and tack it everywhere. If bubbles do form, cut round slices to inject epoxy, not cross grain straight lines as these tend to catch the eye.
Anyway, I will add a photo or two of the 'finished' version of this later ... two steps forward, one and a half back. So it goes.
How's by You?
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Edited by - woodboat on 06/26/2008 11:09:22 AM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 3:16:34 PM
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Holy Cow Batman! lol
And I thought my Radar Arch was more work than I wanted to do right now... Laughing at myself...
Woodboat is really looking good!
Just a few questions.
Why didnt you just use a thin (1/8"-1/4")Real wood veneer for the outside top plank?
Wouldn't that have been much easier?
(I know what you mean, Our Owens had this feature and looked cool as can be!)
What are you doing for racking resistance at the rear end of the flybridge?
Why not just frame the edges of the rear of the back deck and use canvas to fill it in?
Thinking it would be much easier to open/close etc and add some racking resistance.
Love the trim details on the front deck!
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 7:26:21 PM
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Hi rockmeister, ... I do not know what 'racking resistance' is... but surmise it is lateral movement? So I presume you are referring to the actual side of the flybridge moving sideways... - the bottom of the side panels is fastened indirectly to the deck, but the top is indeed free to move quite a bit sideways due flexing, and as of yet I have no solution.
And my appologies, but I do not understand where you are referring to with this item "Why not just frame the edges of the rear of the back deck and use canvas to fill it in? Thinking it would be much easier to open/close etc and add some racking resistance." Are you referring to the roof area or the area where the windows go? I am not a fan of canvas, especially where I keep the boat, as we frequently are exposed to 50 - 80kmh (30-50mph) winds off the lake. Canvas just does not stand up the the abuse but keeps the boat top guys smiling lol
I should have used the 1/4" veneer- could not find 1/8" and so used the paper backed I had on hand, but butchered it badly. But for now it is staying like that - maybe in a few years I will grind it down/off to flatten things and redo it with the thicker stuff.
Have been real busy with various other things (plus getting ready to go to Switzerland for a couple of weeks end July) but there has been progress on the boat. Will try to do an update here before I go. Thanks for the interest ~ Steve |
Edited by - woodboat on 07/14/2008 7:28:10 PM |
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Rockmeister
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 6:59:56 PM
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Hey Steve!
Yes, I was referring to the rear windows for the canvas & can understand the wind issues.
And yes, by racking resistance, I mean the lateral movement of the flybridge floor and walls.
(Separate issues actually)
Maybe extend the stainless rail for the back of the flybridge to connect in at least 2 spots to the sides of the flybridge walls to help stiffen the assembly?
(Mine does this and it helps a great deal.)
Reading with interest! Thanks for the info!
Rock
79 28' Mariner twin inboard V-drive.
SW Lake Erie: Maumee Bay & The Islands |
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woodboat
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 3:57:39 PM
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Hi once again...temporarily settled in the desert in California (read no water here), and with a somewhat workable internet access, I have a bit-o-time to update some of the work completed last spring and fall. Still planning on being back in North Bay, Ontario this summer to work on the boat a few weeks before launching. Since I no longer have a 'house - home', I expect to live on this boat at the local City marina. There is much that needs to be completed for this to work out. Among the items I need are 120v AC electrical panel so if you have one...
... a full AC rewire is in store (I have only installed the shore power plug so far) also need to do a full replumb for water and various 12vDC rewiring. I have the galley to finish rebuilding and lots of sanding/refinishing, curtains, flooring and the list is ... ummm... endless lol.
Here is the new flybridge being installed. Always fun doing new installs. All items were previously dry-fit prior to cetol application. The parts were then assembled and glued and screwed together - to be essentially one unit.
IF there is a requirement to remove the flybridge (for transport perhaps) then the entire unit now can be removed as one piece and set down on the foredeck.
Meantime, other major projects of fun were underway, including 'woodifying' the transom. Previously plywood, fibreglassed and painted, I epoxied selected mahogany subfloor cut into 7 3/4" strips to - look like fake planks onto the stern. I ran out of the nice dark stuff, so picked another 'pattern/colour' for the top 'plank'.
The 'planks' were cut on my portable table saw, out in the yard, which of course is less than ideal for getting straight cuts (over an eight foot lenth). Still, I did pretty good, and after dry-fitting the pieces they were epoxied onto the platform and fastened with finish nails (which were left in place).
Following a clear coat of (10% thinned) epoxy, I filled the seam gaps with a wood flour epoxy paste.
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Edited by - woodboat on 02/14/2009 2:21:34 PM |
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